Episode Transcript
Dr. Chan: What kind of impact does a senior film project in Africa have on one's career and life path? How do you balance a career in digital media for preparing to apply to medical school? Why is it important to do activities that fit your narrative, and how does knowing your strengths help you as a non-traditional applicant?
Today on "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life," I interviewed Sam, a first year medical student here at the 㽶Ƶ of Utah's School of Medicine.
Announcer: Helping you prepare for one of the most rewarding careers in the world this is Talking Admissions in Med Student Life with your host, the Dean of Admissions at the 㽶Ƶ of Utah's School of Medicine, Dr. Benjamin Chan.
Dr. Chan: Okay. Well, I got a great guest again today. Sam, how are you doing?
Sam: I'm doing well.
Dr. Chan: Incoming first year medical student.
Sam: Yeah.
Dr. Chan: How does it feel?
Sam: Like a long journey that is just about to start and I'm very excited. Yeah.
Dr. Chan: When did the dream of becoming a doctor, where did that start for you?
Sam: I mean as a kid everyone toys with their dreams, right? For me the reality hit after I graduated college and I was on a humanitarian trip trying to find out my next steps. I spent some time with a physician, he was treating patients there and since I speak Spanish I made a really close connection with one of them who was giving a prosthetic to help him get back into his life and . . . because of social media we connected again on Facebook. He kept up with me and just seeing the changes that that made in his life over the next few months and not only in his morale but be able to go back to work and provide for his family, showed me the differences in the ability to help others in humanitarian work versus like medical work which I think can really be sustainable if done correctly, so.
Dr. Chan: So you said this happened after you graduated from college.
Sam: Right.
Dr. Chan: So what did you study undergrad?
Sam: I studied digital media at Utah Valley.
Dr. Chan: So a big jump?
Sam: Yeah.
Dr. Chan: You know, going to medicine.
Sam: Yeah. I originally had gotten a software job at a software company down in Lehi and while working there I was kind of looking for something else thinking that I wasn't quite . . .
Dr. Chan: Didn't feel content?
Sam: Yeah, with the field, so.
Dr. Chan: Though, you know, IT, computer, you know, all that stuff, it's pretty big like startups?
Sam: It is.
Dr. Chan: Especially in Utah, it's growing and growing.
Sam: Yeah. Well, in Lehi, I mean, the company I started working for had 60 people and now there's 600. So it was awesome to see the growth and I learned a lot about business through it and I think that will help me in my career as I move forward as well.
Dr. Chan: So as you started switching from digital media, computers, to premed, I mean did you have any doubts along the way or was it kind of a smooth transition, I mean how did that look like?
Sam: I felt lucky in the sense that being older and being nontraditional once I actually determined that's what I was going to do I didn't doubt it. There was a lot of bumps in the road however because digital media is a very much a curative field where, you know, the sciences, especially the basic sciences are all very rigid. There's creative ways to study and to learn and do all that which I applied and learned but it took me a semester to get used to it. And seeing as how the only science class I had in my undergrad was like Bio 1010, I had to start from scratch.
Dr. Chan: Wow.
Sam: And through bio and through chem, all of that, so.
Dr. Chan: So how did you balance that with a career in, you know, digital media while you're trying to, you know, take classes, study for the MCAT, I mean how did you do that?
Sam: I was very fortunate that my career and my success in my career basically led me to have the freedom to take some time off when I needed it. They also allowed me to, you know, study when I needed to, work short hours when I needed to and I think just my work ethic at my job and my career at that point never dipped then I maintain the same level of professionalism and so they let me kind of take the reins with my future, so.
Dr. Chan: Awesome, and your family was behind you the entire time?
Sam: Yeah.
Dr. Chan: They're trying to like, "Sam, what are you doing? What's going on? Are you sure about this?"
Sam: Yeah. My dad is big into education. He's very positive and supportive and I think, you know, everyone in my family just thought it was a great idea and they believe that I could work hard and make it there, so.
Dr. Chan: Do you come from a family of healthcare or physicians?
Sam: No. My dad was a CPA. My mom is into gardening. She's a Master of Horticulture.
Dr. Chan: Cool.
Sam: Yeah. Her backyard is the Garden of Eden basically. It's quite fantastic. And, yeah, no one else in my family came from that. So luckily my dad being a CPA had a lot of physician clients who I had a lot of shadowing opportunities through. So very quickly, like my first semester, I was shadowing and trying to make sure it was the right path and that my interest was there. And I think that's one of the big solidifiers of where I went was I shadowed so quickly that I was like, everything was so exciting I just continued to be more and more interested in every facet that I saw of medicine, so.
Dr. Chan: And I think you also made films, right?
Sam: I did, yeah.
Dr. Chan: Yeah. So talk about that, when did that start and, yeah, how did you get into that?
Sam: So digital media is pretty fascinating. At UVU they have a lot of opportunities for different focuses. I actually ended up doing a focus on sound engineering and my original goal was I was going to, you know, jump to LA and get into film and television and, you know, maybe live life under the bright lights I guess.
Dr. Chan: You can be the director for Avengers Part 10.
Sam: Yeah, right? Jump on the Disney train.
Dr. Chan: Yeah.
Sam: So I got into some films that way obviously for projects and for commercials and the different things you have to do for your grades and for the class work. I went to Africa for my senior project and we did a documentary/promotional film for the work that UVU does with the Digital Namibian Archive and with UNESCO out in Namibia and that's kind of where I was like, well, maybe there is more . . . not necessarily that I couldn't stay in digital media, maybe there's more than just moving to L.A. and like being, you know, maybe there's something else that I can do and it was pretty transformative for me as far as like wanting to do something outside myself. And so that's when I kind of started looking into maybe a different path or a different career.
Dr. Chan: Would you be in the videos or just kind of narrate it or would you be behind the camera?
Sam: Mostly it was camera work, editing work, story boarding, kind of produce work, producing type jobs. Never was I like an actor or, you know, I don't know that I have the face for television, so.
Dr. Chan: Sam, you're beautiful.
Sam: Thank you.
Dr. Chan: Again, I don't know too much about this world. I know that there are contests, some people can submit, you know, their movies, it's a different kind of ways to be judged and things like that. I mean, did any of your work get published or is it sitting on YouTube right now I mean can someone go and find it and did you get any awards for it?
Sam: You know, this was back in 2010 actually.
Dr. Chan: Oh, really? Okay.
Sam: So YouTube was around, but it wasn't as big. I would like to say that I did more with it, but I think once that trip happened I kind of started looking elsewhere.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: So I did have a Vimeo account where I posted some personal projects and I know our video got used for a couple of years and so I made a new one and then the project at this point is over because it was part of a Fulbright at that time so, yeah, not really.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: I mean it's something I still have very much part of my life as far as appreciation for media and photography but not something real big on my resume like that.
Dr. Chan: All right. Okay, let's focus on medical school applications because I know this was a difficult journey.
Sam: Right. Trial by fire.
Dr. Chan: Yeah, just talk about that. I mean how was that like, how many times? Let's go through that.
Sam: So, yeah, I applied three times. The first time I made the choice we'll say to apply before I knew my MCAT score and I applied only to the U and I didn't perform nearly as well as I had liked and so I kind of just punted for the next season I will say. So I had to step back and really evaluate a lot of what I was doing. I got an interview obviously and had some great things told to me. I met up with Mayumi who helped me kind of make steps and plans for what I should do moving forward.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: And so for the second time we kind of talked about my experiences and really showing my personal growth and my interest in medicine and we talked about adding some new experiences and really shoring up some others.
Dr. Chan: Because that's kind of, I mean, to me coming from a nontraditional background, it's both a blessing and a curse.
Sam: Right.
Dr. Chan: You have these different experiences, but then, again, like you need to kind of convince the admissions committee like, "Hey, you know, I'm just . . . this is something I'm very serious about and I don't have a lot of background in doing the stuff." Do you see what I'm saying, Sam?
Sam: Absolutely.
Dr. Chan: So I'm glad you got some feedback. I'm glad, that's good.
Sam: Yeah, that you know the pre-professional program here is awesome, and Mayumi is awesome and she really kind of direct and blunt to a sense, but she's also very kind and helps you plan, make the right plan. So she helped me established that because, yeah, like being nontraditional before I started shadowing, I had very little experience except for maybe, you know, all the times I went to the ER as a kid just injuring myself.
So the experiences that I added I felt like really helped solidify my interest but also show, you know, my story. And I think that's one of the important things is when you add experiences, don't do something that looks good, do something that fits your story, that fits your passion.
Dr. Chan: Yeah, your narrative, yeah, who you are.
Sam: And what you want out of medicine. So for me I really want to do global health so I continue to add things like that. Locally, I continue to work at Mulege because I love working with the Spanish population and I think over the course of my applications I ended up working there for about three years. So that really showed, I think, the committee that I was serious about this that I wanted more experience and that I was a big part of jumping into that.
Dr. Chan: Did you ever want to give up?
Sam: No.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: You know, I thought after this last round if I didn't get in I may not reapply right away, maybe take a break, get a masters or really take a step back, but.
Dr. Chan: Well, this last round you got on here absolutely. But I think you got into other schools too.
Sam: I did, yeah.
Dr. Chan: So like it was kind of like this validation almost.
Sam: It was. You know, when I got my first acceptance I actually was just coming back from New Year's in Costa Rica and I was so elated. It was so crazy to just kind of see it come full circle, but I think for me with this last time there's a couple of things that I did really well that I . . . you know, as a nontraditional student it's very hard because a lot of times you don't have anyone to talk to. And, yeah, I can talk to Mayumi but at the end of the day I don't have a peer, I mean I had classes but for me I was taking all my classes as much as I could. I didn't go to a lot of the study groups because I had to go back to work. So a lot of times you don't form the same relationships when you're working full time and studying that you might normally as a student.
So I didn't have a lot of peers to connect with. So I actually met . . . I found out a friend from college had gone to medical school. His name is Dr. Aleksey, he's actually doing a residency in UCLA now. And he really helped me this last time to really form my narrative and ask the right questions that I could maybe, you know, just better paint the picture, you know, my hopes and dreams in my application. And the funny thing is not a lot changed but a lot of it is just contemplating who you are, why you're here, you know, and making sure that shows on paper. It's like a creative writing process basically and then obviously I retook the MCAT which . . .
Dr. Chan: You did much better if I recall.
Sam: I did much, much better, yes.
Dr. Chan: Yes. So the secret is wait until you're older and then you'll do better on that.
Sam: Right. And even the first time, it's like with the MCAT don't take if you're not ready.
Dr. Chan: Yeah.
Sam: With medicine, you know, the old adage is it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. Even the application process has to be that way. You know, I think with the MCAT and with everything just make sure you're ready. Make sure you've peace of mind. And one thing I recommend anyone that's in that position whether it's a retake whether first time is save one of the official exams to like four or five days before your real exam and don't look at any portion of it and then the score you get on that, assume that's going to be the score on the real thing. And if you're not happy with it, don't take it. Just wait. So that worked out really well for me and I ended up actually scoring the exact same on my last practice as to my first.
Dr. Chan: Awesome, that's great.
Sam: Yeah.
Dr. Chan: So, you know, before I turned on the pod we were talking and then, you know, you kind of asked going back to the nontraditional you mentioned like your age.
Sam: Right.
Dr. Chan: And so like are you, I mean, how worried are you about that? I mean . . .
Sam: You know, I have a young spirit.
Dr. Chan: Okay, all right.
Sam: Except for maybe worrying about my hairline receding, I'm not sure.
Dr. Chan: Okay. Well, I know what you're saying. I've been thinning up there too, so, yeah.
Sam: Yeah. No, I'm not worried about that at all.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: I feel, you know, that when you get into your 30s you actually start to really get, I feel like, and to be at this point in my life and know what I want and know where I'm headed, I know I won't have the best background, the best medicine pedigree maybe as some of the other students who are all going to be incredibly intelligent but I know that I'll have the same work ethic as anyone in class. And so I'm dedicated and although I probably have to study more, I know where I want to be, you know what I mean? So I could be in four years doing a lot of things and to be graduating in medical school is at the top of my list.
Dr. Chan: Well, Sam, I mean we talked about it briefly but, you know, you're not going to be the oldest person in your class.
Sam: Right.
Dr. Chan: And I know that it' sometimes daunting like, "Oh, you know, just bunch of 20-year olds," but like there are some people in their 30s as well and I think from a friendship, from a cohort standpoint I think our med school has and always will have a wide variety of backgrounds and ages and I think, yeah, I think you're going to find people just like you and I think you can get along well with this people who are, you know, 10 years younger than you.
Sam: Yeah.
Dr. Chan: It sounds good.
Sam: I think so too and I appreciate that. I think no one should ever be deterred from pursuing any dream whether it be medicine or anything else to the age. You know, you have stories of people in their 40s and 50s jumping into medicine after a career and something else. And I think if you're passionate about something you'll find a way. And you'll find people who are friendly and you'll find mentors and colleagues that will, you know, there's so many different types of people in medicine that I think you always find your people is what I've been hearing and what I've . . .
Dr. Chan: Yeah. And you mentioned, you know, you know who you are, you know what you want to, so I'm not going to hold you to it because obviously med school has all these experiences. You could change your mind but as of today what do you foresee yourself doing? What field do you want to go into and where do you want to practice?
Sam: So as of today I think I'm leaning towards surgery.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: And I don't want to get too specific about that but I have a huge background in the arts and in sculpting and in painting and also a couple of years where I bought a home that I've been slowly renovating and nothing makes me happier than just like problem solving and diving and do working with my hands. It's cathartic in a sense and I really appreciate just kind of the processes and the problem solving aspect of that and I think I'd love to be on the forefront, you know, creating and restoring and helping someone feel new, again, in a sense. So we'll see, I mean, like I said, when I shadowed, there are so many different opportunities and options that I was like, "I could do this and I can do that." And I was so excited by all of them, like there's very few things that I don't think I could do. So I'll wait until third year here to get really serious.
Dr. Chan: Sure. And then you mentioned global health.
Sam: Right.
Dr. Chan: So do you first see, I mean like is there like an area of the world or a specific country you want to work in or, and you know, how does that fit with the surgery?
Sam: Yeah. It's interesting because I just got back from the Global Health trip to Ghana.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: And they had the Extreme Affordability conference there and Dr. Price, one of the deans here, had talked about laparoscopic surgery in Mongolia and it's interesting because a lot of times you think surgery and Global Health they don't quite connect, but the reality is a lot of time when you set the standards for surgery, all other aspects of healthcare improve. And then also in Mongolia he talked about gallbladder removals and when you do that laparoscopically, even versus normal surgery, it actually helps their economy because people are able to return to work five days later. They have much less downtime. They're healthier and everything about that, so it actually got me really excited.
And I think surgery will tie hand and hand with that. And I'm lucky because I can focus on Global Health without necessarily making that specialty so I'm going to continue to do trips like next summer and, you know, look for other opportunities to do similar public health, you know, and maybe research or volunteering here in Utah.
Dr. Chan: So you mentioned Costa Rica and Ghana, where else have you gone?
Sam: Wow. So I love to travel.
Dr. Chan: Or where haven't you gone, I guess, yeah.
Sam: So, yeah. I've been to five continents, hoping to hit Australia maybe for Christmas.
Dr. Chan: The only continent that's a country, yes. Yeah.
Sam: Right. So I've been to about 30 countries.
Dr. Chan: Okay, wow.
Sam: Back to your original question I guess and to explain where I've been, when I was younger I served an LDS Mission in Uruguay and I love South American culture. I really love the language, I love the people, I love their music, their personalities and I think I'd like to eventually set something there long term because I do think global health has to be, you know, dedicated and sustainable in any way that you do it. You know, you have to go back. You can't just do this one-off trips to really have something beneficial long term. So I like South America I think but I do want to experience other aspects that I know the Global Health Program here does trips to Nepal, in India, and now that I have already done Ghana, I can maybe do one of those and just get another breadth of experience and see how that goes.
Dr. Chan: That's cool. You must have a lot of stories.
Sam: Yeah.
Dr. Chan: Any ones that you care to share with the pod?
Sam: Stories?
Dr. Chan: Yeah. I can give you topics.
Sam: Okay.
Dr. Chan: Missed flights, bad food, police station. Go.
Sam: I got a good story for you.
Dr. Chan: All right.
Sam: So it's close to home.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: We were in Mexico. If anyone is from Arizona, it's commonplace to just drive down to Rocky Point, there's a bunch of condos and it's right on the Gulf. Coming back from there, not only the week that I was there did we have several run-ins where they ask for money and the police are always trying to get something from you, on our way back, me and a friend were driving and . . .
Dr. Chan: This is in Mexico?
Sam: This is in Mexico.
Dr. Chan: Good.
Sam: So we're getting close to the border . . .
Dr. Chan: Arizona plates?
Sam: No, I'm from Utah . . .
Dr. Chan: Okay, Utah plates.
Sam: Utah plates, I had my car. I drove to Arizona and meet some friends and we drove down there or to Mexico. So we're driving back, my buddy's sit in the passenger seat, never wears the seat belt no matter where we go and obviously nothing I can do about that. So we're driving back and whenever we get closer to the border we're always on edge anyway because that's where all the issues happen. So we're getting close to the border and we drive past and this policeman tries to waive me down. And I thought I'm close enough to the border like, oh, just screw that guy.
Dr. Chan: So still on the Mexican side?
Sam: Right, still on the Mexican side. And then I see him grab his intercom and something like yelling and running after me and so I'm like, "All right, I can't escalate this. I better stop and see what's going on." So I stopped. He pulls out to me and since I speak Spanish I'm able to kind of discuss things with him and kind of argue with him, and he basically tells me that, you know, since my friend doesn't have a seat belt on, I need to go with him to the station to, or no, he asked me for some money. And my first thought is, well, I'll tell him I don't have any. So I said, "Oh, I don't have any cash, but can I pay with a credit card?" And obviously it's basically extortion, so he's not going to, you know, pull out his square or something. So basically, he's like, "No, no you have to pay cash. Why don't you come with me to the station?"
I was like, "Oh, great, now, he wants me to go the station." I thought, well, what if I just tell him I'm in a hurry. It was a Sunday. So the first thing I thought of is like, "Oh, you know what, we're on our way to church. We've really got to go."
Dr. Chan: Were you dressed up in church's clothes?
Sam: No.
Dr. Chan: Who cares?
Sam: And I'm obviously like in a tank top or something. I don't know why I thought about this, but I was just like, "We've got to go, like, I don't have time, like I could pay with the credit card now or we're in such a hurry that, like, we got to make it to church." And it was so funny because he just sat there kind of flustered like I would never expect an American to talk to me like this, and I got pretty good at Spanish. I think that's part of it. Once you actually speak another language well, they respect you a little bit more and . . .
Dr. Chan: Did you launch into the first discussion, or like, no, it was not appropriate at that moment.
Sam: Yeah, not at that time.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: But then we kind of continued to discuss things like that and eventually he was just like, "Fine, get out of here." So, you know, my buddy buckled the seat belt and we took off. So you never know what you'll find when you're travelling, but . . .
Dr. Chan: It's a good story.
Sam: Thank you.
Dr. Chan: All right. And then let's talk about your nickname.
Sam: Okay.
Dr. Chan: So is it your spirit animal, what is it? Let's talk . . .
Sam: It is.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: Spirit/power animal.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: I think I was in college, we did one of those, you know, find your power animal, Indian shaman self-help guide things. I think we saw it off "Rob & Big" or something where he went to an actual shaman. So we basically just did whatever the shaman did and just kind of copied it. And it's interesting because I'm a Gemini, and at the very end of this little tale journey thing, you kind of look up in the smoke and you're supposed to see an animal. And actually I saw two, fitting of the Gemini, you know.
Sam: The twins, yeah.
Dr. Chan: Yeah. So one was a bear and one was a saber-toothed tiger. And there's really nothing about saber-toothed tigers, probably because Indians didn't have that in their culture, but bears, interestingly enough, really became something I felt very connected to just by learning about what that means and, you know, just kind of a fun thing. And interestingly enough, this was years and years before I planned to get into medicine, but bears are always known as across all cultures, whether it's in Russia or Native Americans or anywhere that these bears they're revered as very wise old spirits that are traditionally seen as the shamans and healers of their tribes. So I kind of thought it was kind of a cool story in the sense that, you know, continue with that nickname, I will be able to do that for my own tribe, my own people and maybe take on that role myself.
Dr. Chan: So does your family and friends call you "Bear?"
Sam: A few people.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: It's not too much. I actually put that on the card because I figured there'd be another Sam and it'd be a fine nickname to go by.
Dr. Chan: Okay, so you're prepared for your classmates to call you "Bear"?
Sam: Right. Yeah.
Dr. Chan: And what kind of bear? We're talking black bear, grizzly bear, polar bear?
Sam: I'd say grizzly bear, yeah.
Dr. Chan: Okay. Not a polar bear?
Sam: Not a polar bear.
Dr. Chan: Okay.
Sam: I like them all.
Dr. Chan: They're all good bears.
Sam: I'm a big bear fan.
Dr. Chan: Yeah, there's a lot talk in the missions like, "Oh, let's hear the story between, you know, Sam's nickname," so it's very unique. We love it.
Sam: Thank you.
Dr. Chan: So, all right, did we cover everything on your piece of paper?
Sam: I mean I wrote down a lot of things, but I think we did.
Dr. Chan: Yeah. What else do you want to say? Let me turn the time over to you. Do you have questions for me or what else do you want to say, Sam, or Bear?
Sam: Bear.
Dr. Chan: Sam Bear.
Sam: You know what's funny actually is I got a Sheba. I have a dog and I named him Kuma which means bear in Japanese. So it kind of goes in a lot of different ways.
Dr. Chan: And I think there's a picture of Kuma on the back of your car.
Sam: There he is.
Dr. Chan: All right, yeah. Quite a few of your classmates have animals. A lot of dogs we noticed, yeah.
Sam: Yeah. I think it will be fun to get out and bring the animals out whether we go hiking or whatever, so. You know, I think as a nontraditional student the last thing I'd say is just, you know, use your strengths, focus on who you are and most of all, you know, when you're writing your story find a real mentor. Find someone who went on a similar path. Like I said, my friend that's at UCLA was a huge impact for me and just be yourself.
I think sometimes when you apply it, especially when you reapply it, you get really stressed and everything gets magnified and when you're nontraditional you start questioning like, "Oh, am I risking so much?" And really like I said a little bit before, you know, once you get in you could be doing a million things in four years but how lucky we are to be able to study medicine and to be able to be healthcare providers that I couldn't picture any feature happier than that so I just, you know, kept chugging on.
Dr. Chan: So let me tell you like before I wind up, Sam ,I really appreciate you coming on. I'm going to tell you a secret, I mean it's not going to be a secret because we're on the pod. I've always rooted for you and I just felt bad that you didn't get in the first times but I was so happy when you got in and the big secret is like as admission's dean I definitely have people I root for and sometimes they get in and sometimes they don't, but I'm really glad that you kept on pushing and trying and growing and I think that was validated by you getting into multiple schools.
Sam: Well, thank you.
Dr. Chan: I'm just glad you're here at our school. So, yeah, you know, I've been pulling for you, I've been rooting for you, and I was really happy it happened for you this year, so.
Sam: That means so much to me. I have no idea because when you go to the process you don't know what people think of you and with you, especially like I . . . especially this last time I listened to your podcast a lot. Even just considering my future in medicine, once I got accepted, just planning out what I would be and then once I got into The U obviously, just was euphoric to kind of come full circle and be able to stay in Utah where I'm so happy to be. I love the mountains, I love the people, and, you know, I love the school. So that means so much to me, you really don't understand, so.
Dr. Chan: I appreciate it, Sam. We're going to have to have you come back after the, you know, I want you to come back to have like a status report, so how's first year going like, "Oh, my gosh," because, again, like you know you're on the cusp, you know, like everyone has images of or, you know, like this is what medical school is going to be like, right? And not until you actually step in as a student in your first day and then experience it, you're like, "Oh, this is exactly what I thought I was going to be." "Oh, this is really different." And I would just love to watch you and talk to you about that over the next four years as you grow into that. Sam: Yeah. I think it's going to be a lot of work but I can get myself to work, so, yeah.
Dr. Chan: All right, cool. We'll thanks, Sam.
Sam: Well, thank you.
Dr. Chan: Or thanks, Bear.
Sam: Bear.
Announcer: Thanks for listening to "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life" with Dr. Benjamin Chan, the ultimate resource to help you on your journey to and through medical school, a production of The Scope Health Sciences Radio online at thescoperadio.com.